Shoyoroku Case 30: Dasui's Kalpa Fire — Commit to the Present, Destroyed or Not

Dasui Fazhen: Move Beyond the Dualistic Opposition of “Destroyed or Not Destroyed”

From Shoyoroku, Case 30: Dasui’s Kalpa Fire

擧。僧問大隨。劫火洞然大千俱壞。未審這箇壞不壞。[愁人莫向愁人說]隨云壞。[早是那堪]僧云。恁麼則隨他去也。[目前可驗]隨云隨他去。下坡不走更與一推。僧問龍濟。劫火洞然大千倶壞。未審這箇壞不壞。[同病相愛]。濟云。不壞。[打破契頭捩轉鼻孔]僧云。爲甚不壞。[又恁麼來]濟云。爲同大千。[生鐵鑄成]

Dasui’s Kalpa Fire Classical Chinese Original Text

擧（こ）す。僧（そう）、大隨（だいずい）に問（と）う。劫火（こうか）洞然（とうねん）として大千（だいせん）倶（とも）に壊（え）するとき、未審（いぶかし）、這箇（しゃこ）は壊（え）か不壊（ふえ）か。〔愁人（しゅうじん）は愁人（しゅうじん）に向（むか）つて説（と）くこと莫（なか）れ〕隨（ずい）云（い）わく、壊（え）。〔早（はや）く是（こ）れなり。何（なん）ぞ堪（た）へん〕僧（そう）云（い）わく、恁麼（いんも）ならば他（た）に随（したが）い去（さ）る也（や）。〔目前（もくぜん）に験（こころ）みる可（べ）し〕隨（ずい）云（い）わく、他（た）に随（したが）い去（さ）る。[下坡（げは）に走（はし）らざるに、更（さら）に一推（いっすい）を輿（あた）う〕僧（そう）、龍済（りゅうさい）に問（と）う、劫火（こうか）洞然（とうねん）として大千（だいせん）倶（とも）に壊（え）するとき、未審（いぶかし）、還箇（しゃこ）は壊（え）か不壊（ふえ）か。〔同病（どうびょう）相憂（あいうれ）う〕 済（さい）云（い）わく、不壊（ふえ）。〔契頭（かいとう）を打破（だは）し、鼻孔（びくう）を捩轉（れいてん）す〕僧（そう）云（い）はく、甚（なん）としてか不壊（ふえ）なる。〔又（また）恁麼（いんも）にし来（きた）る〕済（さい）云（い）はく、大千（だいせん）に同（どう）じきが爲（た）めなり。〔生鐵（さんてつ）鑄成（いな）す〕

Dasui’s Kalpa Fire Kanbun reading method of Classical Chinese

Case: A monk asked Dasui,

A monk: When the kalpa fire blazes fiercely and the great thousand world system is completely destroyed, is this destroyed or not? [A sorrowful person should not speak to a sorrowful person]
Dasui: It is destroyed. [It was already hard enough to bear]
The monk: If so, then does it go along with it? [It can be verified right before your eyes.]
Dasui: It goes along with it. [Not running down the slope, but giving another push]

A monk asked Longji,
The monk: When the kalpa fire blazes fiercely and the great thousand world system is completely destroyed, is this destroyed or not? [Those with the same illness sympathize with each other.]
Longji: It is not destroyed. [Smashing the contract deed and twisting the nostrils.]
The monk: Why is it not destroyed? [Coming like that again]
Longji: Because it is the same as the great thousand world system. [Cast in solid pig iron]

Dasui’s Kalpa Fire Modern Meaning

Who are the characters in Dasui’s Kalpa Fire?: Dasui Fazhen

In this case, a monk asks Dasui Fazhen (大随法真) whether one’s original face (本来面目) is also destroyed when the universe is destroyed.

Dharma Lineage

• 馬祖道一ー百丈懐海ー長慶大安ー大随法真

What is the Monk’s Question?: What happens to one’s original face when the universe is destroyed?

Now, let us enter the main case. A monk confronted Dasui with a question: “When the kalpa fire blazes fiercely and the great thousand world system is completely destroyed, is ‘this’ (one’s original face) destroyed or not?” However, because this monk seemed deeply absorbed in doctrinal lectures, his questioning sounded somewhat scholarly.

• Kalpa fire blazes fiercely (劫火洞然): Refers to the doctrine in the Abhidharmakośa-bhasya that after a great fire catastrophe (kalpa fire), an era of absolute emptiness ensues where nothing remains. The fierce and total nature of this destruction is expressed as trichiliocosm. (阿毘達磨倶舍論 卷第十二)。
• Great thousand world system (大千世界): Refers to the three thousand great thousand world system (三千大世界). Originally a worldview in Indian philosophy, it was incorporated into Buddhism. According to the Longer Agama Sutra, a single world system centers on Mount Sumeru; a thousand of these form a small thousand world system; a thousand small thousand worlds form a medium thousand world system; and a thousand medium thousand worlds form a great thousand world system, collectively termed the trichiliocosm .
• This (這箇): A demonstrative pronoun meaning “this” or “that.” In Zen, it points directly to one’s “original face.” On this blog, the Chinese characters are retained only in the original passage, while in the main commentary, it is translated simply as “this” from the start for clarity.

Wansong Xingxiu (万松行秀) commented, [A sorrowful person should not speak to another sorrowful person.] What happens to one’s original face is indeed a matter of supreme importance. This comment implies that both are sorrowful figures: the monk grieves because he cannot realize this truth, while Dasui grieves over how to guide this monk to awakening.

What is Dasui’s Answer?: It is destroyed

Dasui answered, “It is destroyed.” This means, “If the entire universe is destroyed, one’s original face is destroyed along with it!” Wansong commented, [It was already hard enough to bear.] This implies: the monk had challenged Dasui believing that one’s original face was indestructible, so when Dasui so easily declared that it perishes, Wansong asks how the monk could possibly bear such a devastating blow to his misconception.

The monk tried to confirm once more, asking, “If so, does it (one’s original face) go along with the world and perish?” Wansong mocked him with the comment, [It can be verified right before your eyes]. This means, “Instead of trying to confirm it through words, why don’t you examine the reality with your own eyes?”

Dasui said, “(That is right,) it goes along with it.” Wansong commented, [Rather than letting him hesitate on the slope, he gave him another push]. This means: despite Dasui kindly giving him an initial push, the monk was still lingering and hesitating. Therefore, Dasui gave him another bush.

What is Master Xiu’s Answer?: It is not destroyed.

This time, the monk asked Longji: “When the kalpa fire blazes fiercely and the great thousand world system is completely destroyed, is this destroyed or not?” Longji refers to Master Xiu, who previously appeared in Case 12.

Wansong attached a similar comment, [Those with the same illness sympathize with each other.] Although what becomes of one’s original face is indeed a matter of supreme importance, the monk grieves because he cannot realize it, while the master grieves over how to lead him to realization—thus, both are companions in sorrow suffering from the same illness (the delusion of conceptual discrimination).

Master Xiu’s answer was the exact opposite of Dasui’s, declaring, “It is not destroyed.” Wansong commented, [Smashing the contract deed and twisting his nostrils.] This implies that after Dasui told him “it is destroyed,” the monk arrived at Master Xiu’s place thinking he had vaguely understood the matter, only to be told “it is not destroyed,” having his intellectual assumptions shattered once again. His arrogant, scholarly nose was thoroughly twisted.

What are the True Intentions of Dasui and Master Xiu?: Rather than worrying about whether it is destroyed or not, accept your original face right here and now.

The monk could not help but ask another question, “Why is it not destroyed?” He persisted, wondering why Dasui said it is destroyed while Master Xiu said it is not destroyed. Wansong chuckled with the comment, [Coming at him like that again (churning out logic and questions once more)].

Master Xiu said, “Because it is identical with the great thousand world system.” Since one’s original face and the entire universe are one and the same, his answer implies: do not separate the great thousand world system from your original face in the first place. Now, the monk is completely at a loss. Wansong commented, [Cast in solid pig iron]. This comment means that Master Xiu’s response is an assertion of seamless, solid truth—so firm that no blade or teeth of logic and conceptual discrimination can even mark it. It is far too resilient to be split by the sword of dualistic views (destroyed or not destroyed).

What is Yuanwu Keqin’s Assessment?: Both Dasui and Master Xiu guided the monk according to his level of understanding

In this commentary, the case was explained following Wansong Xingxiu’s perspective in the Shoyoroku (従容録). However, this case also appears as Case 29 in the Blue Cliff Record (碧巌録). There, it is brought up by Yuanwu Keqin (圜悟克勤) for the purpose of investigating: “What on earth is one’s original face?” Therefore, if one gives a scholarly answer like “one’s original face is the intrinsic nature of sentient beings,” one will only be scolded.

The goal of Zen is not “learning the definitions of words and concepts (gaining intellectual knowledge),” but direct experiential realization. Thus, Yuanwu Keqin assesses that both Dasui and Master Xiu merely humored and looked after the monk according to his words, just as an old grandmother plays with a young child.

In the aftermath of this case, the monk—who was told “it is destroyed” by Dasui and “it is not destroyed” by Master Xiu, and was left wandering in confusion—visited Touzi Datong (Case 63). Touzi Datong advised him to go back and see Dasui once more. However, it is said that by that time, Dasui had already passed away.

What is the core of Dasui’s Kalpa Fire in Shoyoroku Case 30: Abandon concepts and fully accept the entire universe as it manifests right here and now

• A monk asked whether one’s original face is also destroyed when the entire universe is consumed by fire.
• Dasui pushed him over the edge by saying, “It is destroyed,” while Master Xiu embraced him by saying, “It is not destroyed.”
• Moving beyond the dualistic opposition of “destroyed vs. not destroyed,” one fully accepts oneself right here and now.

My Experience: Will I Pass or Fail?

In my personal account for Case 23 of the Shoyoroku (“Ruzu Faces the Wall”), I mentioned that a student of mine who was aiming for a prestigious high school had decided to attend a cram school that guaranteed passing. Just the other day, however, she canceled that plan, and in the end, I resumed full responsibility for her guidance. She explained that although she was initially drawn to their catchy slogans (abstract concepts), after attending a trial lesson, she realized it wasn’t good and decided to quit. Though I didn’t mention it to her, I wasn’t particularly surprised, as I had previously heard rumors that the school was skilled with superficial slogans but terrible in actual practice.

Although this student performs fairly well on practice exams, recently she has been reluctant to do her homework and has started arriving late. In my view, relying on the mindset of “attending a cram school” and “feeling somehow guaranteed to pass” has robbed her of the opportunity to face herself directly. Since I have already taught her how to study and approach her work during our time together, my honest feeling is that not going to the cram school will actually force her to work with desperate dedication.

If asked, “Will I pass the exam?”, whether the answer is “You will pass” or “You will not pass,” the fundamental reality remains unchanged: one still has to study. What this student truly needs to do is not shop for cram schools, but develop the resolve to own the results herself, along with the initiative and ingenuity to work through trial and error on his own. If she can master this at his young age, it will become a lifelong asset. While I am not in a position to force this upon her right now, when she hits a roadblock in life in the future, that opportunity will surely present itself.